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John Walton: Hello, and welcome to The Chain, a special limited run podcast focussing on the supply chain — from The Up Front, the home of in-depth, independent aviation journalism at the heart of the passenger experience.
The Chain delves deep into the often-creaking seats, cabins, and interior supply chain, sitting down every episode with an industry expert from a company that makes up a key part of the chain.
I'm The Up Front's editor-in-chief, John Walton, and today I'm joined by Andy Masson. Andy, would you please introduce yourself?
Andy Masson: Hi, John. I'm Andy Masson, and I'm the SVP of Product and Strategy here at Panasonic Avionics
John Walton: And for those who aren't familiar with Panasonic Avionics, though I suspect there are few of those around — who are you and what do you do in the supply chain?
Andy Masson: Panasonic Avionics is one of the few suppliers of inflight entertainment and connectivity in the cabin. We're most well known for the seatback screens or the TVs in the seats, or in the furniture in business class. We also provide Wi-Fi connectivity and some digital services that go on both of those options.
John Walton: And who selects your products for inclusion in the cabin? I presume that's mostly airlines, but what role do, for example, seat makers have in that process?
Andy Masson: Great question. So yes, predominantly our customers are the airlines and we work with well over a hundred airlines with our inflight entertainment products. We work with the seat manufacturers and the aircraft OEMs as well. So the airline will select our products, but they will select them for inclusion into the seats, but also into the cabin and the cabin furniture as well.
So we become a center point between all the various seat companies. So if it's a widebody airplane, that could be first class, business class, premium economy and economy. So that could be four seat manufacturers there. And then the aircraft has to have our products integrated as well, and that could be the server and the control panels at the front of the airplane.
And then a couple of places in the airplane, like on class dividers or sometimes on ceiling panels, we have architectural screens as well.
John Walton: And so how does that differ between — let's use the example of widebodies — your average factory-fresh A350 or your factory-fresh 787. How does that differ for you in terms of that part of the supply chain?
Andy Masson: Between Boeing and Airbus it's not really very much different from how our products are selected, just which OEM that we work with. And each of the OEMs have some of their own processes that we had to have to adhere to. One's not really better than the other, they're just different.
The A350 is slightly bigger than the -87, so we typically sell a little bit more product in there. And it really depends on the differentiation in the cabin. Typically today, the products are on the higher end aircraft, but we are actually seeing, and have seen for the last few years, that kind of roll down into everyone starting to select the inflight entertainment products way more.
Even some LCCs are now picking them on their narrow bodies. On the connectivity, that's happening way more broadly. Just about everyone's now picking up connectivity. And that's done more with just the OEM. So the airline will pick the connectivity provider: they’ll pick one of the half dozen that are available.
Those products have to be offerable if they're going to be line fit. So the OEMs will determine if a product has met enough maturity to go into their production system.
And those those products will be then on a list that they can select, and they will install them in a factory. If the OEMs haven't gone through that process, the airline can always select to put it on in what we call retrofit, where they will put the airplane in a hangar and they will put the connectivity on themselves.
John Walton: What about power and USB sockets? It feels like certainly as you've been rolling out your new product, Astrova, which I flew on with Air Canada recently it feels like everything looks a lot more integrated.
So perhaps ten, 15 years ago, you had the seat, and then there was a sort of hole in the seat in which, you know, the IFE system went. Somewhere nearby, there was a USB socket or two, perhaps, maybe a plug as well, which usually was, printed with the name of some other company who I remember talking to about supply chain a good ten plus years ago, and who was like, "Yeah, we sell X tens of thousands of these to the IFE suppliers. We have no idea where they go. We just send them the units, and they integrate them into the seat and into the power supply system, and we can't tell you where they are on the aircraft."
Obviously, it really feels like that's changed a lot over the last few years, particularly as the aesthetics, as the overall integration of not just of power into entertainment, the second screen, the ability to use your device as a remote, all that sort of thing has gone on. How's that changed? How's that evolved, Andy?
Andy Masson: There's lots of evolution that's happened there over the last few years. At one point, the power boxes for everything came from, one or two suppliers. Then that started to change as you rightly pointed out, where products became more integrated.
Some market forces came in there as well, which is things like the adoption of USB Type-C made a big differential, and the high-power USB output, and that made a market change in everything that's going on as well.
So how do I unpack this? Let me think. You're going to have to edit all this to make it sound like I'm not a blithering idiot, which is going to be really hard.
Okay, so the market had shifted a little bit where at one point you had the AC power, you might have a low power USB-A socket, and yes, that would be in the seat. Some IFE screens had it in, but not all of them. It came to eX series where you started to get the USB-As in there, and they were pretty low power. They were five amp USB-A sockets, so they would trickle charge your phone if you were lucky.
And then, yes, we would buy the external sockets from a third party. The AC power outlets typically are quite disappointing on an airplane, I find. If you put your socket in if, specifically if you've got an American power brick and you only have the two little prongs, they droop out and disappointingly fall on the floor all the time.
And it's a dissatisfier and the sockets break very, very regularly. I think they have a lot of customer abuse and they're getting in and out all sorts of stuff. So the little cheat, the little hack, the travel hack is to use, the UK or the European where they have much more engagement of the plug.
John Walton: Or my old trick is always you use the American one if you need to, but you take one of the ones with the longer cord, and you bend the two prongs slightly towards each other.
Andy Masson: Yeah, you bend it.
John Walton: and that obviously from a passenger point of view, that's less than ideal, right?
Andy Masson: It's a dissatisfier to the consumer because they don't want to be bending their little pins and things, and it's just... they just want it to work. But a couple of things have happened.
One is the market has shifted more towards USB-C, I think largely driven by Europe mandating it as the DC power socket. And, it's very nice that all of our devices now, for the most part, run off of this USB Type-C power adapter.
So that kind of changed the infrastructure, and it meant everyone now has product that more or less runs off the same thing, which, in 2026, is tremendous. Although all our AC outlets, as we just talked about, are all different.
But that allowed us to start to make some changes in the way we provided product, because we could then go to the airlines and say: “we can actually power all these devices from the USB Type-C. We don't need to put AC power in there."
And that means a couple of things. One, you don't need to buy a separate AC power box or an integrated AC/DC power box. We can just put a DC power box that will do the screen and all the USB paraphernalia at the same time. Two, we can then very nicely integrate the USB Type-C, which is a much nicer, narrower and more aesthetic plug, into the screen.
So particularly if you're in economy or premium economy where you have much less space, we were very deliberate about ensuring that they were super integrated, and then we worked an awful lot on industrial design.
So we actually even put them onto one side, and we do that prescriptively because we don't want the socket to drop in the middle. Like sometimes you get there and the screen has it right in the middle, and it sticks directly out, so if you're walking past it, you're going to knock it or break it. Or when you get your tray table out and you put your sandwich on there or whatever it is you have, the cable will drop in the middle. We did it to the side, so it kind of goes to the side of the table.
Tiny little things that are very important. We also put ours at an angle, so it's kind of coming down rather than directly out as well, and it's all about the comfort for the 50th percentile person to be able to kind of get it in there and it's offered in, it's a much nicer thing. And it means if it pulls, it comes out rather than out, there's an awful lot of ergonomics and aesthetics and design and industrial design we put into where we put our USB sockets.
John Walton: There's one premium economy seat that I can visualise where it comes out mid-thigh, just coming sticking out from the side of the seat at you.
And that's just a recipe for me snapping my cable off halfway through the flight."
Andy Masson: Yeah. And the -A’s were really bad because you had... I think I had 100% failure rate of putting the -A in, the USB-A in, the right way round. You always try to put it in and you twist it round and then... I know there's meant to be a cheat, but my brain somehow 100% failure rate on the -A’s of plugging them in.
But the other thing we've done now is we s- we now have smart sockets as well. So on the back of a USB, it used to just be a cable that would go to a power adapter. But now we actually have some smarts in there that can regulate things like power and temperature and turn the socket on and off at the socket level rather than at the power box level.
We do that so we can measure the cabin and make sure everything's operating properly, and it gives us extra protection. Now, all of that then goes into the airplane, and then at the front of the airplane, they actually have a breaker computer that sits there that distributes the power throughout the cabin, to make sure that we're not overbalancing one part of the power system to the other part of the power system.
And that's a lot of the integration that we do with Airbus or with Boeing to make sure that the system is well load balanced, and that's done inside the cabin. Because, as you can imagine, when you put 300 screens and 300 consumers' worth of equipment in there, we have to make sure we're not overly burdening one one of the phases of the airplane because it could throw the whole system out of kilter.
John Walton: That power balance has obviously been something that's been an issue for many years across many aircraft. I’ve been in that experience where, you know you're up in business class and three people are using a sort of massive laptop, and that means that there's no power for anything else in the row or in whichever sort of segment of the system that, that ends up as.
It's happening less and less, but, as we move into the era of retrofits, one of the things I've really noticed is that you can often spot some of those issues coming back in a retrofit aircraft where they don't exist anymore in your A350 or your 787 or your new build, A321neo, example.
A bit more widely, Andy, the supply chain has been a little bit crunchy recently. What's the current state of play in the Panasonic Avionics part of the supply chain? And I think really many in the IFE, the inflight entertainment side of the business at this point.
Andy Masson: We're in some ways blessed with two things that help, which is we're quite vertically integrated, more than probably the other suppliers here, where Panasonic actually even develop circuit forming equipment that they sell into the consumer electronics business that places components and circuit boards and stuff.
And if you ever come to our Osaka factory, you'll see all the machinery there is actually Panasonic machinery. And the reels and reels of of electrical components get loaded in and it, faster than your eye can see, will place all these components like this on the circuit board and do all those things.
So we're quite blessed there and we're also quite blessed that we're able to leverage the wider Panasonic supply chain to increase our buying power. So we're one of the biggest consumers of electronic components in the world when you bring all of Panasonic together, because we also have the consumer business, the laptops business, the automotive business, and then the aerospace business.
The aerospace business is actually very small, because there's only a couple of thousand airplanes produced every year and when multiplied by two hundred and fifty seats, it becomes small fry in terms of the wider space. So we're blessed in terms of our buying power.
The overarching market at the moment is suffering a couple of challenges certainly driven by things like data centres and AI data centres and increasing requirements for componentry on electrical and self-driving vehicles that are really sucking up things like memory and some of the CPU components, which means that the to get access to those components, the price has gone up, and it's gone up significantly.
And that has provided some challenge into the market. One of the things — one of the reasons we moved to Astrova, and one of the kind of secrets behind Astrova is its upgradeability, is with our prior systems, and we'll get onto eXneo in a bit. With our prior systems, you would design it once, and you'd have to support it and build it for ten or fifteen years, which is very awkward in consumer electronics.
You don't normally go out and buy a ten-year-old laptop or a ten-year-old phone. You buy maybe a one-year-old or a two-year-old phone. I always get a prior generation phone because I'm a cheapskate. But you don't normally go and buy something that's ten years old.
And the challenge that hit us and the airline customers with were twofold.
One is you don't really like putting old product onto new airplanes because it feels old and clunky and slow, particularly when everyone's used to iPads and iPhones and Samsung Pads and Samsung phones and smart devices and stuff, and smart TVs. Everyone's used to a very integrated experience at home.
So when you then get them in front of an old IFE system, and everything's slow and draggy and, low power, that's frustrating. So what we did with Astrova is we made it upgradable, and that has twofold benefits.
One is it means everything can be upgraded and feel quick. So when you're on the Air Canada airplane, it feels like an iPad, and it feels pretty good.
But in five years' time, what we'll be able to do is upgrade that, so it will feel like the new iPad then or whatever the electronic — the AI pad it will probably be then, because everything has to be AI. But it also means that we can stay on top of things like supply chain when it comes to old components.
Because actually buying memory for something that's ten years old becomes increasingly difficult, because the manufacturers just don't want to build it anymore. They don't want to build it and support it. It's not like a car, has to go through this immense piece of certification, which means they have to build it for fifteen years.
If they need to change it, it's much easier experience than on an airplane. If I need to change a piece of circuitry, I have to go through millions of dollars worth of certification and flammability and electromagnetic radiation and smoke release testing and HIC testing, and it's just... It was always a pain in the rear to get anything changed on an airplane.
We solved that, and by solving that, we've alleviated the supply chain challenge that we had to some extent. Now, the overarching supply chain in terms of components, that's like a global issue for all of us, and we're seeing that manifest outside of aerospace now, where even Apple and Samsung and Hewlett-Packard are charging more for laptops and smartphones because memory is becoming harder to get.
John Walton: This is perfect because we're already, we're moving on to our next question, which is around the challenges in the supply chain. So one of the things that's always fascinated me, because I've been to your Osaka office, and, the thing that amazes me is how small it is.
Panasonic: massive player in this industry, right? And yet it's the size of a small school gym, basically, or at least it used to be before you doubled the size of it.
Andy Masson: Yeah, we just doubled the size of it because of the success of Astrova and we also started to do some work in — we have another facility that's about an hour away in a place called Kobe, known for Kobe beef, and that's where they manufacture the laptops, and we actually build our peripheral bars in that factory there.
And I've been doing manufacturing my entire life, and when I walk into these factories and there’s a one-minute takt time, it just blows me away. Stuff comes in, it's like [imitates fast-moving machine] It's transfixing, particularly when you're jet lagged!
John Walton: So you're part of this sort of enormous corporation. How do you as Panasonic Avionics, how do you make sure that you can make that call within there to be like, actually, we do need to be allocated some of this very scarce RAM, for example, or these very scarce CPUs that are that are going around now?
Andy Masson: We're very blessed because our leadership understands and they believe in our product. They also recognise that if we hold up our product, so for example, if we only produced half of a shipset of screens as an example, or seat boxes, the knock-on effect of that could hold up a billion-dollar airplane or half billion-dollar airplane or however much they cost these days.
And they're very conscious of not wanting to ruin everyone else's day, delivery, and we portray that inside Panasonic to say, "Look, this is important, and we need a very small allocation of parts in the grand scheme of things. And if we don't get one of those parts, a whole airplane could end up sitting there for, a day, a week, a month whilst they're waiting to come in.”
And the great thing about Panasonic Holdings is they very much recognize and understand that, our small allocation actually drives a much wider deliverable in terms of the complete ecosystem. And the last thing they want — and it's not because of bad press, I don't think, it’s more because of like ethics — they don't want to be the team or the company responsible for holding up a deliverable. And we express that inside Panasonic, and they react very much accordingly.
John Walton: Fascinating.
Andy Masson: the good thing is, like I said our requirement is actually very small. A one ship set might only have, three or 400 boxes on board.
So it's very small in terms of, an overarching deliverable.
John Walton: And I guess certainly, because your products are mainly going on wide bodies — and we talked briefly about how there's, increasing number of the longer range narrow bodies that have IFE on. Having said that, people have been telling me that the seatback screen has been dead ever since I started being a journalist in this industry mumble-teen years ago, and it doesn't seem to be dead yet.
Do passengers still want this? Because airlines have different views even airlines in the same segment, right?
Andy Masson: It's a good question, and it's been going around for a very long time. And it was one of the questions I had when I joined Panasonic Avionics. But I will tell you that the market demand that we've had for our latest product family as you point out, which is Astrova, is the highest market demand we've ever had for any product.
Wide bodies, but also narrow bodies increasingly ,are picking up inflight entertainment — or these days we call them inflight engagement products. And, we've done quite a bit of research here, and it's a couple of fold.
It used to be that an IFE product was there and it was a bit premium and you would have it there to, increase the NPS for the passenger to make them a bit more happy on the flight.
But what's increasingly happening is the airlines have recognized that as the screens become, number one, connected, so they're not just a panel that plays, half a dozen movies, they are now a connected electronic device. They attach to the loyalty programs at the airlines, and some of the airlines have gotten extremely savvy at what this means, because now they have complete access to you, the consumer, through their portal, which is their seatback screen, and they can present their image to you through loyalty platforms, and then they can leverage that image for all sorts of great activities.
So this can go to the kind of like the mundane, like things like advertising, et cetera, but also to personalizing or hyper-personalizing your experience. A couple of the airlines you'll fly at the moment, you'll be told — you'll have like low-level stuff like, you're watching, I don't know, Devil Wears Prada, and Devil Wears Prada 2 is now available and you can watch this, or you can carry on watching it halfway through.
But you also have things like, "Hey, your luggage is on board. Your connecting gate is here. Come off, take a left, and you're like three minutes away from your thing, and we've already uploaded it to your mobile device."
The ecosystem between the laptop, the mobile and the seatback is shrinking into this holistic loyalty platform and the really savvy airlines have recognized, "Hey, this is fantastic. Not only can I increase the NPS of the consumer,” — they really like that, they like the engagement — “but also I can use it for leveraging and increasing ancillary revenue.”
And done right, the system will not just pay for itself, it will bring revenue into the airline, significant revenue. And that's what we're starting to see is, as the airlines get more and more switched on and they've gone: “maybe these guys are, United and Delta are onto something," you're seeing the other airlines act accordingly.
John Walton: This idea of inflight engagement as rather than inflight entertainment, that really tickles something at the back of my brain. Because it really does feel like the screens, certainly on, on the very latest products, are becoming much more of a hub of activity, not just on the aircraft, but of your relationship with the airline.
Whether that’s… your IFE control screen also controls your inflight cooling and heating system, for example. Or Astrova on Cathay will show you which loos are available.
Andy Masson: Yeah, the bathrooms. Yeah. I love that.
John Walton: It sounds like the smallest thing, but actually that really does make a difference of knowing, do I need to turn left or do I need to turn right when I get out of this seat?
Andy Masson: It's so true. I fly a lot and I really don't enjoy flying in some respects because of the bathrooms, but knowing that there's one available is the best thing.
John Walton: Especially those red eyes, right? Where you've had very little sleep and you get up as close as possible to the top of descent as you can. You're like, "Which one of these bathrooms?” — which is currently being mobbed by everyone else in the cabin, and also the crew are trying to tidy up the galleys, which are right next to them, and just figuring that out just is tricky.
Andy Masson: also, if you're color blind, the green and the red that they put on the bathroom thing, I'm like I can't tell which is which. I'll just walk over and... And they have the... is it occupied or not? Sometimes you can't tell. The bathroom designs are absolute garbage, right?
John Walton: at the Crystal Cabins this year, Diehl were talking about the accessible lavatories, and just rethinking that and all the way down to people don't know how to use those bifold doors on the lavs. I still see people fighting with those.
Andy Masson: Do you remember the the original -87s, they had that kind of three-quarter door thing that would just, it would fall off half the time as well, which would just be an absolute nightmare. That's probably my worst, when you're at your most vulnerable and the door breaks off…
John Walton: [laughing] Can you imagine? Well, we don't have to imagine—
Andy Masson: [laughing] —throw me off the airplane now!
John Walton: It really is… Lavatories are one of those things which you don't really think about until something starts going wrong with them. and then you really think about them.
Andy Masson: What's Andy’s take on an airplane? A great bathroom.
John Walton: Hey it really does matter! And especially when you're at the front end of the aircraft, hotel bathrooms are looking nicer and nicer. People also have expectations as they go from the business class environment to a business class hotel. The expectations don't change just because you get on the aircraft.
People are willing to make a lot of allowances for that. But in the way that, people are, trying to use a non-capacitive, what's it called, resistive touch screen, these days.
Andy Masson: Resistive touch, yeah.
John Walton: It feels like something out of the Dark Ages.
It's that same sort of level of expectation shift within the supply chain that you have to meet, and you've got to come back to.
Okay, so across the supply chain, Andy — across your bit of supply chain anyway — wave a magic wand and fix one irritating problem with it
Andy Masson: Probably a somewhat uniquely IFE issue that I'm sure the three or four IFE suppliers would all talk about, but I would love to be able to change the components for very similar or like components without having to go through an insane amount of certification with people who sometimes don't quite understand the complexity that causes, for changing one part for another, when we own that sort of supply chain.
I would love to have a little bit more ability to make small-field changes, within bounds, not creating a safety issue, where we could just change stuff much more readily because that becomes the issue, is when you're going down to having to go through a new, dynamic certification because I'm changing a piece of tape on the side of a monitor. It becomes extremely frustrating when you can show, "Look, this is going to make next to no difference."
But the implications are that I have to then go through a large amount of compliance. I understand it. I understand the need for safety. Not suggesting we don't do things in a safe environment, but there sometimes is a common sense pill that I think we could all take and would make things a little bit better.
And then the other thing I would do is maybe have a bit more ready supply of memory right now.
John Walton: That's a really interesting one about the, about being able to upgrade components within an an envelope, as it were, on the certification side of things. Because I feel like that's a demand for quite a bit of the sort of the seat customization part of the industry, when I talk to them a lot.
How does a seat maker, how does an airline, how does an OEM, how does an integrator extend that to you as the IFE supplier in this case? To say, "Actually, we have just done this. We have got an arrangement where, we can put a box of something up here that is X kilograms," and so on.
And, how can they extend that to you in the part of the supply chain where you sit?
Andy Masson: What I would like is to be able to do a whole bunch more by analyses. One of the huge benefits of our latest product is we've gone to composites and polyurethanes rather than glass and metal.
So in the old days, you would have these liquid crystal displays in front of you, and they would have all these different layers of glass, and you would hit them, in dynamic testing, or you would do all sorts of flammability testing to them or electromagnetic testing to them. And it would actually be quite difficult to pass this testing because of all the forces involved or the glass would shatter and, embed into the dummy's face, et cetera.
The new technologies that we use, and we've moved on to this technology that's called OLED, which is what the iPhone and the iPad use these days. It's flexible and it's polycarbonate and polyurethane, so we don't have to worry about any of the glass issues anymore. And the whole thing you can actually — it sounds weird, but the Astrova screen that you sat in front of the other day, if you like push it in the middle, it actually bends and then flexes back.
Kind of, if you have the foldy phones, that they can bend the screens. That's the technology behind it. That has proved extremely important as we move forward with the certification side.
But with our legacy products, we still have, thousands of these airplanes with these legacy products in there that we have to continue to support, and we're having to support for longer because airlines are wanting to fly them forever.
We actually build, way more product than goes onto the airplane when it's initially built, because we build it and then we support the airplane for maybe 10 years or 10 years plus. So we actually build stuff and we hold it in inventory for when something goes wrong, something breaks, or someone smashes their bag into it, or a teenager puts gum into it or whatever happens.
They break, they suffer all sorts of abuse, from the consumer. Sometimes — usually by accident, sometimes not. So we have to support that. And that's where we need to be able to manage these component changes, and sometimes, like I say, sometimes it feels like completely asinine where you're changing like a piece of double-sided tape from one piece to another piece.
And you can show on analysis, you can say, "Look, it has exactly the same tensile strength. It's made of more or less the same thing," but it's very slightly different. It's like a millimetre different.
I would love to be able to go to a bench and say, "Here we go. It does exactly the same thing," rather than have to get a seat company and an OEM and a bunch of certification folks to come in and witness this huge test to show you exactly what something we could show on a bench does.
Those are the things that kind of frustrate us, the other players in the industry as well. It's like an industry issue. The seat companies have exactly the same thing. They want to go from one dress cover to another dress cover, and it would be great if they had a much more simplistic way of doing this.
A lot of this stuff exists for safety, and no one's ever pushing back on the need for safety. But then there's like a there's a point where you say, "We know this is safer. We want to be able to show you in a much more controlled environment rather than a wider environment." That's the frustration that we have.
We would love to be able to say, "Look, we can do this stuff in a much easier way rather than worry about these extreme edge cases, built around..." Some of these tests were built around products from 20 or 30 years ago, which just don't exist anymore, but you're still having to prove out stuff that doesn't happen
John Walton: And the industry does move slowly in this sort of way.
Andy Masson: Yeah. For aerospace it's interesting that everything's very slow! [laughter]
John Walton: [laughter] Almost at Mach one, but not so much in terms of getting the supply chain on board the aircraft.
Andy, thank you very much for joining us on The Chain. Where can The Up Front’s readers and indeed listeners find you to discuss more? Are you on LinkedIn, for example?
Andy Masson: You can f-follow me and see all my crazy posts about flying around with OLED screens on LinkedIn. Panasonic has a great website and LinkedIn, and I think we have all sorts of Instagrams — I’m surprisingly not social media adept, I'll be honest with you, considering how much nonsense I put out on LinkedIn.
But you guys can follow us there and see what we've got going on.
We've, we're doing quite a bit at the moment because we launched this new product that you flew with just over a year ago now. So we're starting to see how different airlines are doing that. So we've got lots of great posts at the moment showing these new cabin interiors.
So I think you flew with Air Canada, and we had United the other day. I think we did one with Riyadh quite recently, and they've got this gorgeous cabin and you're starting to see all these different airlines and how they're incorporating it and the importance there. And it's really cool because, we're just a small piece.
We're the IFE that goes into the seats, et cetera. But what we're seeing is the airlines really focusing more and more on their industrial design, and we love being part of that because, we end up being a window in there as well.
John Walton: And you can find more of The Chain and all of our in-depth independent aviation journalism focusing on the passenger experience at The Up Front on theupfront.media. We'll be back with another episode very soon.
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