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John Walton: Hello and welcome back to The Chain, a special limited run podcast focusing on the supply chain around the 2026 Aircraft Interiors Expo — from The Up Front, the home of in-depth independent aviation journalism on the passenger experience.
The Chain delves deep into the often creaking seats, cabins, and interior supply chain, sitting down every episode with an industry expert from a company that makes up a key part of the chain. I'm The Up Front’s editor in chief, John Walton, and today I'm joined by Chris Corona. Chris, would you please introduce yourself?
Chris Corona: Yeah, pleasure to be here with you today, John. My name's Chris Corona with SIMONA Boltaron. I'm the vice president of aerospace strategy. This is actually my 20th year with SIMONA Boltaron, and in the chain, we specialise in manufacturing essentially any of the materials that you can feel and touch as you're sitting in an aircraft seat.
Everything from the seat backs, tray tables — even into the lavatory environment: the toilet shrouds, things like that. We're kind of sitting right in the middle of the CMF world, so to speak.
John Walton: Exactly, and for those few people listening to The Up Front who might not be familiar, that's ‘colour, materials and finish’ — that's definitely one that we throw out all the time for sure. So in terms of where SIMONA Boltaron sits, who selects your product for inclusion in supply chain?
Chris Corona: It really is a very collaborative sort of specification process for Boltaron. We're primarily interfacing with the designers: a lot of work with the design houses in the aerospace industry. Airlines, of course, airlines are very keen on branding their products through CMF in very specific ways.
So we coordinate very closely with the airlines, and then also the seat OEMs we have to coordinate with as well, to make sure that the materials are doing everything they need to as far as engineering properties, safety and things like that. So it really is a collaborative effort between all those players.
John Walton: Yeah. Is that the same depending on size of airline? So for example, will a smaller airline maybe perhaps not have as much of a design partner influence as a larger airline that's doing a major program? How does that change?
Chris Corona: Yeah, so I would say we probably spend 80% of our time, more focused on the larger programs. That's just just the nature of customisation, right? If you are a smaller airline that is only doing four or five ship sets, your customisation is just gonna be, is just gonna be more limited.
So certainly the larger carriers have the opportunity to — here in the states we have Burger King, getting it your way! They certainly have some more options with just the volume of the ship sets that they're doing.
So yes, that's certainly a driver in our business for sure.
John Walton: Is that changing in any way? I think that one of the things that, that I'm hearing a lot from seat suppliers in particular is that they're trying to offer a slightly wider choice of “standard-ish” options for smaller airlines — coming out of that period within the shutdown where lot of seat suppliers were very willing and indeed keen to engage with with smaller airlines, with smaller shipsets.
Looking at, I'm thinking for example, of the Air Côte d’Ivoire aircraft, right?
Two ship sets, right? But actually there’s a pricing amount of of customization going on there, within the bounds of reason and sensibility. But still, it was quite impressive. I feel like at this point in time where we are, in the rebound from the last crisis as it were, I feel like there's fewer opportunities for those small ship sets orders to get the customisation that they're looking at.
So what's your take on that?Do you have discussions with seatmakers about saying okay, instead of just offering it in beige or grey, we can offer it in this expanded range of warm neutrals, cool neutrals and so on: that one step up from “beige or gray”.
Chris Corona: Yeah, absolutely. So we've put a lot of focus on — obviously lower volumes, lower minimums, all that kind of thing plays into these choices. And we put a lot of focus on doing a better job of that while offering that custom, range or custom-ish range for those smaller airlines.
I think the big thing that we — and our industry kind of tackles, within those situations, is doing it in a sustainable way, right? With customisation often, the other side of that coin sometimes is a trade off on sustainability. So what we've tried to do on our sustainable offerings is expand the number of standard colours that we offer. Yeah. I think, back in the day, maybe those smaller carriers were relegated to just, maybe a couple shades of grey, couple shades of beige. And we actually have quite a number of standard colours that maybe offer those smaller airlines a little bit more customisation than they otherwise would have. But yeah, that's definitely something that we're trying to do, is make sure that we're doing it in a sustainable way.
John Walton: And how do the minimums work with your product? How is that counted? How is it measured?
Chris Corona: In the plastics world, our vernacular is typically in poundage. So for our standard colours and and our standard products, typically that minimum order is around 500 pounds. With that, even at the 500 pound level, we of course, like to run higher than that, to become more sustainable and to get those efficiencies. Obviously our seat OEM partners like to always have the lowest cost possible and that certainly comes with greater run sizes as as well, but for us, a standard minimum order would be right around the 500 pound mark.
So just to put that in perspective, if you're looking at a four foot by eight foot sheet of an eighth-inch or three millimeter-thick sheet, it's around 17 sheets of material, which, in our world is actually very low compared to some other industries where, you're dealing with thousands of pounds for orders.
John Walton: Yeah. Back of the envelope. How many economy class seatbacks, for example, would you get out of that?
Chris Corona: Depending on the size, I mean, you're talking anywhere between, four to six: somewhere in that range, depending on the size of the sea back and the characteristics of that seatback.
John Walton: Okay. That's a that's a useful ballpark. Thanks. So in your part of the supply chain, we've talked a little bit about who's above you in that chain. Who is below you? Where do your feed stocks come from for your products.
Chris Corona: So as far our raw material suppliers, that sort of thing? Typically that would be resin suppliers in the petrochemical industry. We’re very much tied to, the petrochemical environment.
We do compound all of our products in house, so we’ll take various ingredients and bake the cake, so to speak, with all those different ingredients. And there, there'll be anything from fire-resistant additives to, processing aids: that kind of all goes into the cake to get the the material out the door.
John Walton: And then looking strategically at things, what's the state of play in your power supply chain. Are things going well? Are things tricky at the moment compared with — I'm going to say compared with normal, but that's always a tricky thing to… what's normal in the aircraft interiors world?
Chris Corona: Yeah, in 20 years I'm still waiting for normal. I don't know what normal would look like.
John Walton: I hear it’s in Illinois…
Chris Corona: I think, there's a lot of things, John, that I think have happened, especially, during and since COVID. COVID, as far as CMF, was a little bit of a shock to the system, right?
Because, we kind of went from a world where we had all these in-person meetings that share physical samples to develop these programs. And we immediately saw in our business that we had to change to Teams meetings and to a more digital type of sampling. We developed a suite of online products to participate in that sort of digital library.
But the other part of that is, I think everyone agree that would agree, that, in a online Teams meeting or Slack meeting doesn't hold the same sort of weight as an in-person meeting. So I think we all had to adjust to that new realm of us maybe being a little bit more siloed than we were before.
Of course now, the chain is just so complicated. If a supplier runs out of one particular specified fastener, then all of a sudden, the chain is gonna be broken.
The suppliers are gonna see longer lead times, missed deliveries. Fortunately for us, I don't think, we're typically the one that's breaking the chain. But we're affected when, just like I said, a fastener or just some minuscule part makes it so that a plane can't be delivered to an airline.
That's just the reality of it. But I think everyone is mostly aware that we just live in a very fragile supply chain right now in the aerospace industry.
John Walton: Until the latest sort of set of global distribution crises, had we got back to normal since the shutdown or were we still struggling to get some of those — I call them the lost links in the chain, the folks who went out of business as a result of the pandemic or stopped supplying the aviation industry.
Again it ends up being, quite a lot like those, as you say, those small suppliers of key articles for whom aviation, while a large industry, was not a volume customer. As everyone rationalised all of their operations we all know that some people just said, actually, you know what, this is not going to be part of our business going forwards.
Chris Corona: Yeah. John, I think we saw that a lot with our immediate customers. So typically, SIMONA Boltaron, are we're supplying thermoformers, who are forming our products into seatbacks, tray tables, and whatnot. And, I think, the aerospace business even during the best of times is tough on a small manufacturer.
It's small runs compared to other industries like automotive. I do think that during COVID, some thermoformers that just decided: this isn't a great business model for us anymore. So what we've been seeing a lot since COVID, especially with the growth that the aircraft interiors industry is seeing is, most seat OEMs that I talk to are looking for that capacity.
They are looking, to figure out how they can be serviced, to get the quality of parts that they're demanding, which are very high, to get the on-time deliveries that are so important to our industry, and get it at the price they want. So that is — I wouldn't say that that's been completely solved yet. It's definitely something that is, I think, in progress. I think the industry's making progress, but I think the growth is just very big, and something that we're just trying to play a little bit of catch up with.
John Walton: Yeah. Thinking. So back in terms of the folks who you are supplying above you in the supply chain, what are the typical challenges that you run into as a supplier and how do you resolve them? And I'll add an extra little element: how is that changing in recent years?
Chris Corona: So yeah, I think, sometimes the biggest challenge that we have is just making sure that we're all talking very specifically about what we're trying to accomplish from a very early stage. I'm talking right when a program is in early development. A lot of the issues that we see is that people maybe sometimes just don't understand enough about what the material is capable of and what they envision, what they have as a vision of that material being used in the application.
I think, probably the biggest issue that we see in the industry right now is: we're just not getting involved early enough in the process sometimes.
We have seat OEMs that might be working with a design house, envisioning a product. Aometimes we're involved in those early discussions to make sure that the material is suitable for that. But sometimes, if it's an engineer just trying to solve a problem or a CMF designer trying to get the branding that they want, the links might not be made.
So what we're trying to do is get involved earlier in that process, have those conversations more up front and and making sure that people understand what our materials can do, and making sure that they're used properly in those applications.
John Walton: We are all about conversations being had up front. Chris, but in brass tacks terms is that sort of getting involved in programs pre-ITCM, the initial technical coordination meeting for those who aren’t aware —
Chris Corona: Far before.
Absolutely. Far before. Ideally we want to be there as that program is being developed, so when people are thinking about textures on their materials, when people are thinking about colours or metallics or any of that sort of branded thing, because it definitely affect how that material can be formed, the types of parts that you can produce with it.
We want to make sure that we're right there at the forefront to be able to offer that sort of consultive advice, to make sure that the that the product that they're getting — or that the application that they're trying to make a product for is meeting what their vision was looking for.
John Walton: See, I feel like a lot of folks want to be in those meetings, but at the same time, how do you balance that with the need to also be within contractual terms on the program at that point? Because my assumption is, and based on discussions with other suppliers, there are folks who are like: we’d love to be involved and we're happy and enthusiastic to help as it were, but also we’ve got to be selected for the program before we start getting really into it. Otherwise, we're just basically working at risk here in program management terms.
Chris Corona: Sure. Yeah, and I think, the other aspect of it is, anytime you start these new programs, you get buried in paperwork of NDAs and so people are almost afraid to talk to each other because everything is is under legal lock and key so to speak.
I think it's a complex problem that we've been trying to overcome as an industry. I don't know if we need to be involved in every detail. Like, I don't know if we need to be involved in every single development meeting and have a seat at that table.
When you're talking about an industry with thousands of suppliers, that's never, going to be doable. But I do think that we have to figure out a way to do our part, to be at least involved in the things that make it so that we're just — a little bit of the work in the front end, I think, is going to save us time on the back end. There's nothing worse than getting to an end of a program or near the launch of a program and realising that just spending five minutes, having a quick conversation about about a material or about a part could have resolved.
I don't know, John, if I have a magic wand or a magic idea to fix it. But it's just something that we gotta continue to do a better job on.
John Walton: Yeah we'll come back to the magic wand question later, I promise. I've always found it really fascinating to observe the way that the thermoplastics worlds interfaces with the aviation world because and certainly in, in premium cabins and especially business class, so much of immediately, what passengers are staring at for 10, 14, 18, 21 hours now is your product.
And it always surprises me whenever I see something that doesn't look quite right or it doesn't look as premium as I've seen — you folks handing out your sort of a little “Boltaron apostrophe” pieces of thermoformed plastic: this is a texture we can do, this is a shade we can do, this is a pattern that we can do within that.
Then I look at these seats and it's just this sort of, vaguely, not particularly not physically textured element, that’s just bang in front of me. I know this can look better because I've held the samples of this material, looking better. Where do you think the, I guess the sort of missing link is there?
I’m sure you can imagine a few programs where’s there’s a very obvious piece of product there that if I had done it, we would not have put that product on there. We'd have put something else on there.
Chris Corona: Yeah. Some of it is that link that I was just talking about, so for instance, sometimes — I don't know if I don't know the particular part that you were looking at on your flight, John, but sometimes, when you're forming a thermoplastic, a deeper — we call it a draw, so the deeper that that part is formed you're going to have an effect on the surface of that sheet of material. And there's certain textures, certain elements that lend themselves to shallower parts and sometimes thicker parts.
There's a bit of craftsmanship that goes into that whole process of figuring out what the best texture is for the given application. What we've found at Boltaron, one of the ways we're trying to overcome it is: one, making sure that we have close relationships with our thermoforming partners to make sure that they know the best forming parameters, the best methods for forming some of these textures.
But we've also, in some cases, we actually developed some of our own thermoforming capabilities, that we can actually work with designers and seat OEMs to potentially prototype some of these parts earlier in the process. Even before a thermoform is selected, we can actually show the OEM what these parts might look like.
And it's also given us a much better expertise: if we can form it, we can typically, teach somebody if they have the right equipment and the right know-how, how to form that material better. So I think we've made a lot of strides in that front over the last 10 years and it's something that we're looking to continue on with.
John Walton: It is certainly something that that I notice when it's there, and I notice when it's not there and I'm always curious, and sometimes folks will answer me on that question: so why is this not quite as good as as you would, or I might think, it could be, perhaps?
Coming back to the folks who are your suppliers below you in the supply chain. What are the big challenges that you are seeing there? And again, what are you doing to try and fix those challenges? If you've got a resin supplier who says: actually, you know what, you guys just don't need enough of our product. How do you resolve that?
Chris Corona: Oh gosh, I guess there’s always problems everywhere if you look for them. With our supply chain we're a bit tied to, not only the types of products and the specific products that go into our materials, but the suppliers as well, just from a regulatory standpoint.
And that, throughout the supply chain, is always the challenge: we need to make sure that that we’re meeting our requirements that are set for us by the FAA and by the seat OEMs, but that we also have some flexibility, especially when we're developing new materials, to do that.
So I think one of the things that we try to do is have an open relationship with our suppliers, if there's some new additives that we can integrate into a new product that will deliver value to our customers, maybe make it safer, maybe make it more sustainable. That's really what's driving a lot of our supplier conversations is on that front: how can we innovate to, to make our products safer, more sustainable, cheaper, less expensive. Those are all things that we want to look at when we look at developing new products in our portfolio.
John Walton: The point that you're making around the fact that quite a lot of this is highly regulated, and therefore there is something of a barrier to entry, which does insulate suppliers against challenges, almost. Does that encourage people to stay in the game? Because they've done all the work and they've sunk that cost in a way into sort of becoming a certified, approved supplier here? Or is that a factor, do you think?
Chris Corona: Probably. I guess I never really looked at it that way, John, but yeah, I would say that there's certainly a lot of up front development costs that go into our industry.
I don't think, that's one of the things that comes up all the time: obsoleted products or companies not being able to do that anymore, I don't think — that certainly comes up from time to time. At least from my perspective, I don't see a lot of it in our area.
Maybe for some of the reasons kinda you're talking about: just, if you've done all the work, you might as well reap the harvest, right? Yeah, I would say there's probably some truth to that.
John Walton: So we'll come back to our magic wand question. And this is one of my favourites to ask, because it gets some really interesting answers back. Wave a magic wand, Chris, and solve one problem with supply chain. And it can't be, “I need to be involved in the process at ITCM or whatever”.
What's the problem you solve and how do you solve?
Chris Corona: I think about this question all the time and probably if we didn't just spend all the time talking about it, I probably would've told you that we need to just get involved earlier in the process.
So putting that one aside, one of the conversations that we've been having with the industry quite a bit over the last few years has been sustainability. And I think the problem I would solve on that front is for us to better define what we all mean by sustainable and what we're willing to do to accomplish it.
I think one of the things that we see a lot is there's a lot of — and this is everybody in the industry — everybody's wanting to be more sustainable. We’ve done a lot to make it so that these sustainable products, you don't have to sacrifice much, but there's still are some things, and an engineer is going to have to, do the certification work to sign up for a new material.
There, there might be, a little bit more of a colour variation in that product, and I think the problem is that the willingness of the industry really to step outside, what they're trying to do on a day-to-day basis, and it's probably due to just the tight schedules everybody is on, the costing. People are a little bit unwilling to take the time to say: hey, what can I do actually to make this more sustainable? And then make some of the some of the sacrifices that might be required. I think we all want to be more sustainable.
I would love to see the industry just step up a little bit more and put their money where their mouth is, so to speak. Not that it's gonna blow the budget or anything, but I think, just from a time spent perspective I think I would love to see the industry just, work a little bit harder to think outside the box on that front.
John Walton: I concur. I think there's a lot of, nobody wants to be the first airline to put one of those sort of visibly recycled materials on the plane, in a seat, in any sort of consistent way.
Chris Corona: And that that's an interesting thing, you know, the visibly recycled thing has always been an interesting one to me. Because oftentimes that's not — I think a lot of customers say that's what they want, but when we actually start talking about what that might actually mean, because with having a recycled look, sometimes it might mean that it's an inconsistent look. And that's sometimes scary to designers. They want consistency.
And that's what I mean by defining what we mean by sustainable: sometimes having something look recycled is actually less sustainable than having something that has a more consistent look to it.
John Walton: But I think it's notable that over the last few years we've seen aircraft OEMs, seat OEMs, displaying circular economy recycled seat — moving beyond that just being a concept, being things they're actually showing on their stands at AIX, and almost surfacing that to the rest of the industry and saying, look, this is a thing that we do think would be a good idea. This is what it could look like, and let’s see if that's an option for us.
Chris Corona: Yeah, absolutely. I think everybody is doing a good job of, at our AIX stands, collectively brainstorming. I would love to see some of those stand seats end up in planes quicker than they are. But that's just me. I'm sure we'll get there. But, like everything in our industry, everything is slower than we think we than we would otherwise want it to be.
John Walton: I only gave you one magic wand, Chris…
Chris Corona: Yeah, I need a few more for sure.
John Walton: Chris, thanks so much and thank you for joining us on The Chain. Where can our readers and listeners find you to discuss more?
Chris Corona: You can reach us at www.boltaron.com. You can also reach us by email. And we're actually very excited to be at a new booth space at AIX this year. We'll be at stand 5A60, and we're really looking to have a very collaborative style of our show stand this year.
We're really setting it up for conversations and making sure that, like we talked about today, John, that we're involved in the early stages of those processes, of those new programs, to make sure that we're developing the processes that it needs to succeed.
John Walton: Great. We look forward to seeing you there. And listeners, you can find more of The Chain and all of our in-depth independent aviation journalism, focusing on the passenger experience, at The Up Front, on theupfront.media. We’ll be back with another episode very soon.
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